Forum Activity for @Gap

Felipe - did you end up trying to add lactose to your milk chocolate? What is a good proportion of sucrose to substitute with lactose as a starting point? For example if you had 100g of sugar in your recipe originally, would you say 70 sucrose and 30 lactose is a good place to start experimenting? Or should I increase/decrease that lactose proportion of the sugar?

Not looking to get my hands on your recipe, just trying to get a feel for a range to start experimenting in.

Cheers

OK, thanks Sebastian.

malt is made from wheat, maltose is a sugar.

When people talk about adding malt to chocolate, are they referring to malt extract/powder or maltose? Is there a difference between the two in terms of making chocolate?

Vanillin is available in two types - ethyl and methyl. The ethyl version is much, much stronger than the methyl - so use it very, very judiciously. Assuming it's pure (which it may not be - it my have a very substantial amount of what's known as a carrier or bulking agent added to it - usually dextrose or maltodextrin - your supplier could tell you) - I'd say you're off by 2 orders of magnitude. Remember, it's easy to add more if you don't like it; it's awfully hard to take some out if you've overdone it.

I think malt makes for a wonderful addition to milk chocolate, by the way. I wish more used it, but it's wheat derived, so allergens play into things for most folks.

Sebastian, thanks for the response!

It was surprising to hear its use is driven by cost-saving purposes and that it is hard to grind. Either way I got some lactose (not sure if anhydrous or alpha monohydrate) and may get to do some tests on a home grinder. I would be more inclined to reduce sweetness than save costs.

Either way it is useful that it is not a key ingredient for 'better' chocolate in your own scale.

My next steps are:

Malt Extract -The latest test, which is in progress: to add dried malt extract at 2% of total weight. The extract itself is not especially tasty, but I guess it balances ok with vanilla.

Vanillin / Ethylvanillin - I read that a significative amount of vanillin is desirable for a swiss milk taste and it is not present on the beans themselves. I sourced vanillin and ethylvanillin - do you know which one is better for our purpose? I plan to mix vanillin (0.2 - 0.3% of total chocolate) with about (0.1% of the weight in real bean) - considering it is pure, is it too overpowering?

Lactose, by definition, is milk sugar. You can get it in two forms - anhydrous and alpha monohydrate.

It's far less sweet than sucrose (40% or so). It's much, much harder than sucrose (harder to mill). You willcertainlyget a sweetness reduction by using it, i'd not say you'd get an increased milkiness as a result. Historically, it's been added to help lower costs as it's less expensive than milk, and may be considered a milk ingredient in some countries (important distinction for standards of identity). You also may end up with a chocolate with a slightly harder texture as a result of it's use.

In my opinion, if used at the appropriate levels and in the appropriate process, you can produce a product that may be quite similar to your 'control'. I do not believe you'll make something that's better as a result. But 'better' is a tough thing to define 8-)

I have been getting encouraging results making milk chocolate and I'm looking to experiment with malt extract and possibly lactose.

Studying the ingredient list in several milk chocolates one can see lactose is sometimes included as in individual ingredient.Eg. see Lindt's Swiss Classic Milk Chocolate which lists sugar, cocoa butter, milk ingredients (?), cocoa mass, lactose, soya lecithin, barley malt extract, artifical flavor (?).

Does anyone know if milk chocolate has lactose added separately, in addition to that present in podered milk? If so, how much?

I am thinking it will contribute to less sweetness and added 'milky' flavor.

Thanks Kerry.

World Chocolate Master's rules - less than 50% can be sprayed.

I'm entering my first competition next week and my design has a lot of white in it - very little natural brown. The comp doesn't have written rules about the matter but I suspect there's a standard of when you've gone too far with color. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Thanks for your replies. Like I said it is not for me, just trying to assist someone who called me.

The fellow is in the NY area and I am in Redondo Beach. Don't know why he called me but nevertheless wanted to help.

Cheers!

Hi Jeffray,

A store recommended by Adam G on a similar thread seems to carry what they call 'authentic' jute bags:

http://www.cocoapodshop.com/products/Authentic-Jute-Sack.html

Hope it helps.

Talk to a warehouse at a receiving port. You'll not get new bags, but so what, they're made out of plants. They'll have them by the truckload.

I apologize in advance if this question has been asked previously. I had a person who called our company looking for jute bags. Unfortunately I had no extras tooffer him. Does anyone know of someone who has them.

Thanks very much,

Jeffray D. Gardner

Marsatta

Here is a link to that thread Sebastian mentioned - http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/105238-demo-making-chocolate-transfer-sheets/page__p__1443315__fromsearch__1#entry1443315

I've never been very impressed with the consumer grade food printers out there - if you look up some of the threads on the pastry and baking section of egullet, kerry has done some silkscreening of transfer sheets you might consider...

Hello All:

I have taken the Chocolatiers Workshop at Peters and have been tinkering perfecting my batches. I am interested in purchasing a food grade printer where I can make my own transfer sheets, does anyone have a recommendation as to quality of production and cost of use?

Thank you

Eric,

The webpage mentioned onyour blog is correct in some ways (chocolate's main stimulant is theobromine, not caffeine) but wrong in many other ways (chocolate does contain minimalamounts of caffeine, mateine in caffeine is NOT a stereoisomer of caffeine as that is chemically impossible, like saying the mirror image of a chair is totally different from the original chair) so take what it says with a grain of salt.

So the main stimulant inchocolate is theobromine, but not everyone responds to it as much as caffeine. In one study only 2 out of 20people could feel any difference from fakechocolate bars made with and without theobromine. It's more likely that the stimulant effect of mostchocolate comes from the sugar inchocolate bars (~30% in good darkchocolate and up to 50%or more in milkchocolate) and the other minor psychoactive compounds inchocolate like phenylethylamine (like the street drug MDMA), serotonin, cannabinoids, dopamine precursors, tryptamine, beta-carboline alkaloids, and more. So taking the caffeine and theobromine out ofchocolate may not really reduce it's stimulating effects,though it may helppeople who are alergic to these similar alkaloids.

Given that, it may be possible to decaffeinate and detheobrominate cacao using the standard water or dimethylchlorate techniquesthough I wonder if the fact that more of the flavor compounds in cacao are water soluble vs. the more oil soluble flavors of coffee, if these techniques based on the solvent's polarity would take out more of thecacao's flavor than just the caffeine & theobromine. It would take some seriousexperimenting!

-Nat

____________________________

Nat Bletter, PhD

Chocolate Flavormeister

Madre Chocolate

http://madrechocolate.com

I've been waiting all my life for someone, someone who nows how to make good chocolate to make caffein-free chocolate: http://daisybrain.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/free-ideas/

I think it would have a huge market for those who love the taste but can't do the caffein or for parents who want caffein-free chocolate treats for their kids. Am I crazy? What's the problem? It's my understanding that it would be as easy as decaffeinating coffee.

Marcus,

Perfect is Canadian. Not sure if they wire for Europe or not. There is a group buy in progress right now so you might want to look at the thread about that and contact Lana.

Here is a link to their website. Not easy to find!

http://www.perfectinc.com/

HI Daniel

Thanks so much for the info - I had not come across Perfect Equipment before. It's definitely well priced. I can't seem to find a website for them although I imagine they are US based, which is a downside, as I am based in the UK. I am now looking at some second hand prefamac machinery which I think may be the best option, working out cheaper than a new compact coater, esp when shipping is included.

Thanks again

Hi Marcus in previous threads, I have gone into detail about my enrobing system , Perfect Equipment's Compact Coater. I think this is a great system to get started with and at around $11-12k brand new, it is a very good deal. This machine works great for me and I am obsessive how my enrobed products turn out. The Prefamac and the Selmi are better machines; however, they are signifigantly more expensive. My plan is to continue using the Perfect Compact Coater and when I have the funds to upgrade, the Compact Coater will become a secondary machine. As for the Chocoma, I have not seen it in action so I cannot comment on it. Good luck!

Here is a link where I go in depth about the Perfect Enrober http://www.thechocolatelife.com/forum/topics/what-s-your-dream-machine?commentId=1978963%3AComment%3A120724

Hey guys - thanks so much for all the responses and info.

I had heard of Selmi before, and having looked at the website they look like a classy act! I am sure their machines must be some of the best. However, the price for a simple tempering and enrobing set up would be almost double that compared to some of the other options. Keeping initial investment costs down is definitely a requirement for me as it stands.

@ Clay - thanks for the question. I think initially 50-60kg a day is more realistic, although I would hope that we will be producing volumes more like 100kg an hour in the near future. Investing in a machine with a larger capacity which allows us to grow I imagine would be more sensible than having a smaller a machine that we may soon grow out of?? Maybe I wrong however. As far as I have seen also, most of the basic tempering and enrobing options, apart from FBM and Hilliards, only come with tempering bowls around the size of 25kg and above, and they cost the same as amount as the smaller machines offered by FBM and Hilliards.

In terms of price and size the Prefamac and Chocoma seem like the best options? However, as I mentioned, I have no experience with any of these machines so I could be making some very poor assumptions!!

Once again, many thanks for your help!!

Marcus:

When you say "small scale" enrobing, what kind of throughput are you talking about? Some of the systems that support enrobing lines have large (25kg) work bowls with a nominal throughput of up to 100kg an hour (if you have a supply of melted chocolate on hand to re-fill the work bowl).

If you're only going through 50-60kg a day, 100kg per hr might be way more than you need to invest in right now.

So - knowing what "small scale" means (and what your budget is) will help us understand how to answer this question.

:: Clay

Marcus

I would look at the Selmi equipment as well as some of the ones you have listed. They provide the versatility you discuss. Let me know if you have additional questions about Selmi.

brian

i have used chocoma andselmi i likeselmi's as they areportable and easy to workwith the chocoma i worked with was a very old one much older then the one you are looking at

Dear Fellow Chocolate Folks

My brother and I are in the beginning phases of setting up a small chocolate business, initially focusing on created enrobed chocolate bars (ie candy bars). Does anyone have any relevant experience with the different selection of brands/machines available for small scale enrobing?

Top of the list at the moment is the ChocoMa E220, however I am aware that Prefamac, FBM, Hilliards and some others offer tempering and enrobing units for similar prices. (We're ideally looking for a machine which will enable us to make chocolate moulds as well). A machine which can keep chocolate at the right temper for prolonged periods which be an advantage I am imagining.

Anyway, I am really a bit of a novice, having no experience using any of these machines, so I wonder if there are any folks wiser than myself who could offer a few tips of wisdom!!

Many thanks

Marcus

HaHa! Love it! That would certainly qualify in my part of the woods!

I've made the trip from LA to Vermont and as long as you are willing to send them through the x-ray machine, you should be fine. Just make sure you don't seal them up in case they want to look at them to make sure they aren't a WMD! Have a great trip!

We're visiting family and friends this weekend and both a visit to the TSA website and a phone call are not leaving me any clearer on how I should packge the truffles I'm planning to bring along for the least amount of fuss. Does anyone have a recent experience to share?

Hello everyone. Although I've been a member of The Chocolate Life for some years, I believe this is my first post.

I need help. I've started an all-natural sugar-free dessert line and want to add chocolate chunk cookies. I've created a killer proto-type recipe, hand-cutting bars of 85% or 90% chocolate but there's no way our commercial kitchen can mass produce those.

Our distributor says they can get us 70% chunks, but I really want 85% or so. Even 80% would be workable. I've searched all over the net -- thinking there would be tons to choose from -- but apparently this product doesn't exist. Or at least I can't find it. I'm stumped, because with rising diabetes, and the success of the higher cacao bars, you'd think one manufacturer would come up with a chunk made from their own chocolate. I must be missing something.

If any one of you knows of something that will work, available wholesale, please let me know!

Thank you in advance,

Lisa

Good For You Goodies, Inc.

Hey,

I've been reading up a lot about the continuous tempering machines and how good and efficient they are.

Although, what are your thoughts and experiences at batch tempering in a water jacketed chocolate melting/holding tank which comes in varied capacities, and are a fraction of the cost of a continuous tempering machine?

Best,

Luvin

Geetha:

Hundreds and hundreds of hobbyists and working professionals get Chocovision Rev1, Rev2, X3210, and Rev Deltas to work reliably, day in and day out. I am not sure why you're not getting it to work properly and it seems as if you've taken the steps of getting them on the phone. I wonder, reading what you wrote, if it has to do with the blending. You might not be getting the chocolate warm enough (some Valrhonas really want to melt out at 60C not 45C) and whether or not there is enough mixing in the bowl. Try melting the chocolate in a bowl and then pouring it into another container and giving it a really, really, good stir then put it back into the bowl and restart the tempering cycle.

The discussion about moving up to a continuous temperer depends (in part) on the quantity of work you plan to do. Continuous temperers are more expensive, but one upside is that there is no real wait cycle between batches as you have with batch tempering machines. This can translate into huge productivity gains when you factor in the measured depositor which enables you to put a measured amount of chocolate into mold cavities by pressing a switch.

If "lots and lots" means hundreds and hundreds, then the difference in productivity is going to be worth the higher price of the continuous temperer.

I found this discussion really helpful. Thanks Clay for all the detail. I have a Chocovision X3210 and am making only bars (for now). Which means it's all about the tempering. I'm not doing bean to bar (again, for now) so I'm starting with chocolate and blending for my own taste. I've gone circles with the X3210 trying to get a reliable, repeatable tempering process. It's been impossible. My bars have snap and sheen but if you know what to look for, you see slight gray lines or blobs. People eating it don't care but it's certainly not perfect. I spoke with Chocovision, and their chocolate expert multiple times. Have tinkered with ambient temperature, humidity etc. but despite all the right pieces to the formula, I cannot get a perfectly tempered bar every time.

So, the question I ask is, if I am going to make lots and lots of bars to sell wholesale, is the Chocovision X3210 not the way to go? Will I ever get it to work reliably? Or should I just give up and move to a "continuous tempering" machine as I am reading in this discussion. Any thoughts?

Geetha

The easy answer is yes. But it's a lot more complicated than that, and FBM does make a machine, the Unica, which has 3-zone tempering.

From looking (and working with) the control panels of various FBM machines I can tell you that the temperature range is far wider than 30-45C. I know that the upper end of the range is closer to 60 and that can be modified. One customer here in the US is working with a chocolate that wants to be at 70C! FBM provided a way to override the default programming to accommodate the higher melt point as well as provide additional heating elements to the working bowl to reach and maintain that temperature. If you are working with a chocolate made with no extra cocoa butter, then the working temperatures are going to be on the low side. Perhaps surprisingly low.

It also makes a huge difference where the final temperature sensor is, and how heat is applied to raise the temperature of the chocolate coming out of the tempering (cooling) pipe. It does no good to have it right at the top of the pipe, you need it as far along the output path as possible and you need a method of warming that is highly responsive and very precise.

It turns out that the geometry of the 2-stage systems is such that the third temperature zone happens automatically. Interestingly, the FBM Aura with its extra-long spout does a really, really good job in this respect.

What most people don't realize about continuous tempering machines is that there is a delicate balance that needs to be created to effect the continuous tempering cycle. More reactive and more precise control over temperature is most important. Also, the geometry of the auger in the tempering pipe is important because that determines the ability of the crystals that are formed along the pipe walls to spread to more chocolate. You can make the core diameter smaller to increase the amount of chocolat being pumped, but that means fewer crystals in the chocolate when it leaves the pipe. Making the core diameter of the auger greater reduces the amount of chocolate being pumped in any given time, but the quality of crystallization is better. If you have the ability to control the rotation speed of the auger, even better.

So - you can't just look at one specification and say that machine A is better than machine B. Tempering is a dynamic system and all of the elements play a role. Keeping the temperatures balanced precisely within a narrow range over the course of the day could be more important than the issue of 3 zones over 2.

Clay,

Savy Goiseau temperers, according to their website,areequipped with a 3-phase continuous tempering system(45 - 27 - 30) which can be adjusted depending on the type of chocolate.

It's my understanding that Selmi and FBM are equipped with a 2-phase continuous tempering system (45 - 30). Is this right? If so, wouldn't the tempering quality be compromised?

Thanks.

Joseph: The $5400 is for the PLC model?

For comparison.

An FBM Prima continuous tempering machine with a ~15lb capacity working bowl (~50lb/hr throughput) costsabout US$8000 (before shipping and with ChocolateLife member discount). Delivery time is 60 days from order.

Two advantages of the Prima:

1) you can easily attach an enrobing belt after the fact and
2) the vibrating table is built in